Talk:WikiBound

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Proposal to do a major overhaul of items

For the longest time the way this wiki handles items is to do a "List of X items in (game)", where all the items in the category are on one page in a list. I assume because most items don't need large pages is why we did this, else they'd end up looking barron like EarthBound Wikia's. I personally don't think this was the best approach, because what it does from a readers' perspective is instead make it more convoluted if you're trying to look up a specific item, as you're instead forced to read through a large list of items just to find what the one you're looking for, and with huge lists like List of recovery items in EarthBound it makes it exceptionally annoying and difficult for people with slow computers (Why look through a list of 20+ recovery items just to find "Brain food lunch" instead of just being able to find it one click away?).

It also raises concerns for mobile users due to the horizontal scrolling required when viewing the tables. I have asked people outside the wiki just for curiosity, and they believe that having individual pages would be the better approach.

So I am officially proposing to split all items into individual pages. There will be case-by-case exceptions, however:

• Certain items are part of a "set" like baseball bats, similarly named items with similar effects will be covered on the same page, for example "Double burger" will be covered on a general "Hamburger" article, as it's simply a better version of the plain hamburger so no reason to cover it seperately.
• Some items have different names but identical effects, such as "Vial of serum" and "Antidote". Because both items cure poison they will be covered collectively on the same article.
• On cases where items have different effects but similar names, they will be covered seperately, for example "Magic herb" is an HP restoring item while "Refreshing herb" and "Secret herb" are status curing items. As they are different types of items it will be misleading to cover them on a general "Herb" page.

This is something I've been wanting to propose for a long time but haven't gotten around to due to my flucuating schedule. Since I'm going to be activly on here for at least the next couple months I'll be able to do some of the major work on this project. I am hoping to get some opinions on this matter so please share you're opinion if able to.

EDIT: I have also made an example page on what an individual item article will look like here, it is rather short but by comparison to recurring items throughout the series this can serve as an example of the minimum content in a page if this were to pass. And to clarify the lists qre staying, instead their purpose will be to serve as a disambiguation page. --OmegɑToɑd64 03:58, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Bump, would like to see some movement on this. --OmegɑToɑd64 12:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

It's been nearly a month without any movement (don't know what I expected from a dead wiki). After giving it some thought, considering the fact of how inactive it is here to where there likely won't be any movement let alone opposition, combined with Tacopill being mostly hands-off with my decisions, I will give this one final bump. And should there be no opposition by the one month mark I will begin this project unless there is a legitimate major oppose. Since most readers believed that individual pages is for the better then that should be a good enough reason to pass this. --OmegɑToɑd64 13:54, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

2024 Changes

In January 2024, I'm going to be starting a grifkuba-wide effort to revise many of the skins on wikis that we host. If you would like to be part of the conversation, please join us on the grifkuba discord server. Tacopill (talk) 23:34, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Indie Wiki Jam

I'm helping put together a edit jam for January.

Please see here for more info:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_nBN651Lh30Dd9e11YJUj0MahT-Q9PPSrdU26z_gwgk/edit?usp=sharing.

Tacopill (talk) 17:40, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Fan community namespace

Years ago we had the idea to expand our coverage to fan projects, I was in support of it back then and still am now, however it didn't get far. Furthermore I didn't push it as I realized we had a lot of stuff to catch up on for the official games. Now, our articles are in a much better state compared to before so I think it's worth going back to this.

The reasons the same as before: we can expand our coverage and bring in more editors. EarthBound is known for it's dedicated community to the point where even Wikipedia has an article on the fandom, and stuff like this would be a popular subject. And being an EarthBound wiki it feels off to not at least acknowledge dedicated community (outside of small mentions like how we say "EarthBound has a dedicated following" on several pages). It can also give us an edge over other wikis like EarthBound Wikia, as (to my knowledge) there aren't any other places that cover the fan community in wiki format, giving us more exposure. This will mean we're heading into unofficial territory, but this wiki isn't official and shouldn't be a problem, plus this can be similar to how SmashWiki has articles on competitive play, something that is not officially endorsed by Nintendo.

I will, however, express the concern that allowing coverage on fan projects can open the floodgates to covering all sorts of content regardless of quality and relevance. A few guidelines I propose, with more that should come, are the following:

• Relevance: An obvious one, but the content must be directly related to EarthBound; stuff like indie EarthBound-inspired games like Undertale or Oddity are out of the question for coverage.
• Notability: The project must have some recognition in the community. Something like Mother: 25th Anniversary Edition would be appropriate, a small niche ROM hack of an EarthBound game is not.

I would like to see what others think so please leave your thoughts, as well as suggest guidelines for making sure the content we cover is up to standards. --Ultimate Toad 02:46, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Firmly and dedicatedly absolutely not. I do not believe in the crossing of official and fan content unless absolutely necessary to do so or if they are officially recognized. This will only end up confusing the end reader, even if it is in a different namespace and with a warning banner. A fan game community should be its own independent place—or possibly a derivative of https://fanonwiki.org depending on how the staff feel it fits their scope. As you mention as well, there are too many loose ends as to what makes something fit within the scope. What does "the community" mean? Who comprises of that? What makes a particular entry notable versus one that is not? If there truly are a wide amount of custom titles created, then it leads to a possibly infinite scope with no truly objective barrier. Hard Drop documents both official and fan creations and it has on multiple occasions also led to people just bulk documenting their own creations instead of meaningful contribution. That is not something I believe we should moderate and deal with. Let us just redirect to more appropriate fan resources. It might be appropriate to have a page about fan entries as a general discussion point with the names of a few examples just to acknowledge they do exist, but not an exhaustive documentation list.

Also, just because the articles might be better off now does not actually mean a lot of them are good. There are still many improvements to make, particularly when it comes to the volume of stubs and the presentation of material...

The same thing as I said when it came to terminology use. WikiBound is not and should not be a documentation of the community of the franchise, it should be the documentation of the official series and what is actually being released. Wikis should not be partial to the fan communities that trail behind them. You wouldn't write about how Paula is the best character in the series because the wider community thinks so, nor would SmashWiki about why Subspace was actually the best game mode.

Also, as an aside, SmashWiki documents competitive play because it IS endorsed (in a limited capacity) by Nintendo. They have sponsored specific competitive events prior. They simply cover more in the fan sphere in addition to formal events. The difference is that as a competitively oriented multiplayer game, documentation of the multiplayer events is expected. Competitive play is still a part of the original game/franchise—same goes for Splatoon or ARMS. Trig - 06:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

"I do not believe in the crossing of official and fan content unless absolutely necessary to do so or if they are officially recognized"

EarthBound is known for its dedicated famdom, which even Itoi himself acknowledged their dedication. We could put a limit in terms of fan made content, but I do not believe we should ban an article about the community or about websites like Starmen.net and EB central simply because it's not official. Perhaps for fan games though we could list them on a condensed page, like on the ROM hacks page? (Which that page could use a bit of a cleanup)

"This will only end up confusing the end reader, even if it is in a different namespace and with a warning banner"

This would be more of a concern for a wiki covering a major franchise like MarioWiki, which spans accross thousands of games with constant releases. We're a wiki documenting a franchise that spans 3 games and hasn't had a new release in 18 years, something that has basically became common knowledge, I don't feel we should be as strict as they are in terms of completely banning any mention of something that is unofficial. As long as we keep it seperate from the mainspace similar to how SmashWiki has a strict rule not to mention Project M/+ outside of it's own articles or competitive pages, this shouldn't be too big of an issue, especially if we take the route of listing projects and games.

"What does "the community" mean?"

It means just that. The fan community that plays and enjoys the EarthBound franchise. Every gaming franchise, big or small, has a fanbase. EarthBound's fanbase has been noted many times for it's strong dedication.

"Hard Drop documents both official and fan creations and it has on multiple occasions also led to people just bulk documenting their own creations instead of meaningful contribution"

"What makes a particular entry notable versus one that is not?"

This is a legitimate concern and something I failed to make an account for. It would be less of a problem if we were to limit most projects onto a list much like the aforementioned ROM hacks list.

"It might be appropriate to have a page about fan entries as a general discussion point with the names of a few examples just to acknowledge they do exist"

As mentioned earlier this can be an option instead for projects and fangames.

"WikiBound is not and should not be a documentation of the community of the franchise, it should be the documentation of the official series and what is actually being released"

Our goal is to be a helpful repository for the series. The fandom is something that is brought up all the time so it isn't fair to completely ignore it just because it is not an official subject. The point of this proposal is to acknowledge their existence and some of their major work, not have hundreds of individual articles documenting every single minor project. At the very least, we should have a page documenting the dedication of the community similar to how Wikipedia's article does it (the fan community article that was attempted could work, but from a quick read even I agree it needs a major cleanup before being mainspaced, perhaps rewriting it to be about the fanbase in general and not elaborate documentations of their projects, but stuff like the merchandise and documenteries should stay)

"SmashWiki documents competitive play because it IS endorsed (in a limited capacity) by Nintendo. They have sponsored specific competitive events prior"

And they have had articles on the competitive scene sincle long before Nintendo had attempted to work with them in the past. Plus they even have pages on gameplay modifications, and Project M/+ have their own articles, and they're not endorsed by Nintendo (and as a matter of fact is something Nintendo opposes). They began documenting the competitive scene because it became too big to ignore and not solely because Nintendo has sponsered it. We don't need to go as elaborate when documenting the community as they are, but I'd still rather have something rather than nothing.

All in all I do agree with the concerns of opening the floodgates for what fan projects should and shouldn't be allowed, so I am considering limiting fangames to being on the aforementioned page dedicated to it, however at the very least, we as an EarthBound-centric wiki should have an article about the community's dedication and examples of what they have done, rather than ignoring it completely. --Ultimate Toad 23:31, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Huge Mistake

"Since it's launch in 2010". Seriously!? Two sentences to reach an error. It should be "Since its launch", not "it's". I can't edit the page though, so thanks to someone who can fix this. ButterCashier (talk) 12:20, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Fixed up, can do without the snark next time as it is a common mistake. --Ultimate Toad 23:33, 29 January 2024 (UTC)